Chris Combs and Steve Waterkotte of Combs Waterkotte Criminal Defense Firm discuss DWI and DUI cases, and ways to protect your future.
- How does a DUI/DWI affect professional licenses or certifications?
- What should you look for when hiring a DUI/DWI attorney?
- Can you still drive for work if you have a DUI/DWI?
- How can a DUI/DWI affect your employment?
- Are there different penalties for first-time DWI/DUIs and second and subsequent DWI/DUIs?
- How long does a DUI/DWI stay on your record?
- Can you refuse a breathalyzer or field sobriety test?
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Interview Transcript
Scott Michael Dunn: One factor that a lot of questions have come up – Google questions, of course – but a lot of questions come up about how is this going to affect me, my professional life? And if I have certifications of sorts, what should I expect?
Steve Waterkotte: We kinda touched on this earlier, the first thing is the potential for losing your license.
As I said, we almost all rely on our ability to drive legally to and from work, right? Even folks that are working at home, you go to meetings, you have to go into the office periodically. you got to meet with clients, vendors, whatever the case may be. So that’s number one. is your ability to drive at stake in many of these cases, in virtually all of them. And so, that’s number one.
And then as far as – every job is different. We get this question often, “Well what about my background [check]?” It’s hard to answer that. Every job, obviously the higher you go up in society, the more thorough the background check.
So whatever somebody’s particular jobs or policies, that certainly could impact your employment with whatever business or agency you work with. Of course, you have professional licensing and things like that. Nurses, attorneys, doctors. We all have a professional licensing board to oversee our status.
In most of those professions, in many of them, they have mandatory reporting if you have ever been arrested, and then obviously the annual background checks. So all those things, that’s why it’s not simply a traffic ticket or traffic stop.
Chris Combs: And I would say there’s two big things to note here.
One, a common misnomer is people don’t realize that you have four records. You have a driving record, you have an arrest record, you have a criminal record, and you have DFS, CPS, Child Protective Services.
When you’re hiring a criminal defense lawyer, you are hiring them to protect your criminal record and then hopefully do a good enough job where you can go But the second you’re fingerprinted it’s in the system. It doesn’t matter how much money you have or who you hire, there’s going to be an arrest record.
What I often tell people on first offense DWIs is this is not a life ruiner, this is not a career ruiner. When I get the question of, “Do I tell my employer?” – and of course this is always very specific – but more often than not, I tell them, “If you think it’s going to come up, you ought to address it head on.” Because like we talked about earlier, all walks of life get them, people understand one night of poor judgment more so than they understand a liar or someone who’s kind of lying by omission.
Now those are first offense DWI. As you start racking them up it’s a whole different conversation. I’ve had friends of all walks of life get DWIs. There’s successful lawyers who’ve had DWIs. There’s judges, doctors. So again, a first offense is almost never a career or life ruiner.
Would you agree, Steve?
Steve Waterkotte: Yeah. If it’s handled appropriately.
Chris Combs: Yes, of course. With that caveat.
Steve Waterkotte: Can they spiral? Yes.
Chris Combs: Sure.
Steve Waterkotte: If you handle it appropriately, you have the right person in your corner, I 100% agree with that.
Even in the most difficult of professions, we’ve become a pretty forgiving society. What Chris said, I absolutely agree with. Can somebody forgive a lapse in judgment, a poor decision to get behind a wheel? If there’s an accident involved, an injury, that’s a whole different ballgame. But a standard run of the mill, first offense DWI, you address it head on. Many times an employer might put you in their employee assistant program or get some alcohol treatment and vet those things out.
I absolutely agree, we’ve become more forgiving. It’s a little different than other crimes in the sense of moral turpitude or burglary. Those things are a different ballgame. But I agree with that. We can generally get you out of this. You’re going to jump through some hurdles. This is kind of what I always tell clients. It could be the classes, it could be community service. In most cases, virtually all first offense, we can get you to the other side of this fairly unscathed.
It’s going to cost you some money, and you’re going to have to do these things. But, I can’t recall somebody saying, “Hey, I lost my job.”
Chris Combs: No, no. And in my entire career I’ve represented almost every profession except I have not represented a judge yet. But I’ve represented any other, high-end profession you can name.
I can think of one instance, and it was someone who wanted to work for Anheuser Busch and they have a no tolerance policy. He ended up becoming an investment banker and is doing quite well. He’s registered with the SEC and has all those licenses, federal licenses. So it didn’t stop him from that.
That is literally the only time. He kind of had a dream that he wanted to be a brewer and start his own brewery, and he wanted to start there to get experience. But you know, that’s the only time I could ever think of. And he didn’t have a job and lose it. He just wanted to work there and that was disqualified.
Scott Michael Dunn: Sure. It’s good to know [from] an ethics standpoint that’s not something they should spend a lot of time worrying about, especially on a first offense.
Steve Waterkotte: And I know that’s easier said than done. I always say, once you hire us, let us do the heavy lifting, you turned it over to us.
Chris Combs: It becomes our problem.
Steve Waterkotte: Let us handle it. I know it’s easier said than done. It’s not like you can just turn off the mind. But I think most people when they come to us for their initial consultation on a DWI, almost every one of them walks out feeling a little bit more at ease. In many cases, a lot more.
Chris Combs: A lot more, I was gonna say.
Steve Waterkotte: Even for the extreme worrier, they generally and routinely tell me when I meet with them, “I feel a lot better.” You feel like you’re in command of the situation. And that’s a sense of relief for us. That’s what we want to do. We want to provide a little relief for them even though we have the journey ahead. We’ve got court dates and things like that. It always feels good when you can take a little bit of that off their plate.
Scott Michael Dunn: Absolutely.
Steve Waterkotte: They walk out and they say, “Oh, I feel so much better,” because when they initially get that DWI until they come to our office, it’s usually the next day, two days later, it’s usually pretty quick. They haven’t slept, they haven’t [eaten].
Chris Combs: They hopped on Google, they’ve read all the worst things you can possibly see.
Steve Waterkotte: So it’s nice when they’re able to come to us. We walk them through the entire process. We don’t have the evidence. We don’t have the police reports at this time. But we lay out the process for them. We let them know what this looks like, that this isn’t the end of the world, you’re not getting fired tomorrow. They can walk out with a sense of relief knowing, “Okay, I’ve hired Steve or hired Chris or hired Matt. I feel better now, knowing that they’re in my corner, they’re fighting for me and they’re going to let me know each step of the way what needs to be done.”
Chris Combs: And something that I think makes us unique is you never get stonewalled by a receptionist or a paralegal at our office. Most of our clients have our personal cell phone numbers. That’s a big thing. We try to really personalize our representation as much as possible.
One of the worst things in practicing law is when the client calls you and they’re like, “I haven’t slept in three days.” They’re like, “I don’t want to bother you.” Then you answer their questions and they’re like, “Oh,” and it’s like, “I wish you would have called me three days ago. Now you feel light years better. I didn’t know you had these concerns or worries.”
I always tell clients, “Look, you’re not paying me by the hour.” The criminal defense industry standard is flat fees. “[You’re] not bothering me, don’t have sleepless nights. Call me, please.”
Scott Michael Dunn: It’s nice to feel that you could go to professionals like you guys and feel like you’re approachable.
Steve Waterkotte: And accessible.
Scott Michael Dunn: And accessible, that’s huge.
Steve Waterkotte: That’s huge. I think that’s what separates our firm and what we try to make is the hallmark. As Chris said, they do have our cell phones. Everybody gets a call back that same day.
Scott Michael Dunn: That’s awesome.
Steve Waterkotte: Outside of very few circumstances, I’m in trial or one of us is in trial. But even then we have staff and that’s what they do as well. Paralegals that know the law almost as much as an attorney, that can help answer some of these questions. So accessibility is huge.
Chris Combs: And [we have] case management software where we’re putting in updates all the time to where if they call the office, if we’re not available, – which is rare – like Steve said, I can tell you we’re on our phones on vacations and, barring being in trial or deposition or something, we’re reachable. But again, our case management software, where we’re notating updates in the case, it’s very easy for one of our support staff to take a call and say, “Oh, this is the last note in the file.” Just an example.
Scott Michael Dunn: It’s nice to be proud of that. I think you are on a different scale from the profession that you’re in for what you offer.
Steve Waterkotte: We like to think [so]. The number one complaint, what you hear across the board, whether it’s in Missouri, whether it’s any other state in the country, it’s, “I can’t get ahold of my lawyer. I don’t know what’s going on with my case.”
The hallmark of what we do at Combs Waterkotte is communication and accessibility. I always tell clients this. Any update we get, you’re going to know that within 24 hours. And there’s of course periods of time, it may be weeks, even months that things aren’t happening. We’re waiting on things from the prosecutors. But you’re always going to be updated when we have an update. You’re never going to be in the dark in terms of, “I don’t know when my court date is. I don’t know what’s going on with my case.” You’ll know, “Hey, there’s not going to be an update for a month because we’re waiting on police reports.” Things like that.
So that’s what we try to make the number one priority in our firm and what we try to make a hallmark of our firm. We separate ourselves by the accessibility and the communication with clients.
Chris Combs: If we can alleviate stress and anxiety and sleepless nights by giving up some of our time and knowledge – and I’m talking about five, 15 minute phone calls, sometimes a half hour. That’s a big deal. You just change someone’s complete headspace.
Scott Michael Dunn: Anxiety. It’s so overwhelming for the anxiety that you feel. And I think that our conversation, if whoever watches this podcast – which, for the record, judging by the last podcast we did it’s gonna be a lot of people – but the point that we’re making, by having this conversation is to give some comfort. There are opportunities out there for you, but pick the right person. Don’t be afraid in a situation and [be] bullied by a police officer to do things that you don’t have to do because you have rights. Then don’t run and let some guy or gal that’s maybe had a case or two pack your parachute.
Steve Waterkotte: That’s right.
Scott Michael Dunn: That’s just a terrible idea. So we have the quality, we have the humility, you have the availability, and you have the aptitude.
Chris Combs: And you just have to worry about the red flags. The cheaper lawyers, like Steve says, that they may just scan through an alcohol influence report, take that plea deal and that’s it. But that’s what you get for $500, $1,000.
Scott Michael Dunn: It makes a difference.
So, things to expect. Let’s say we get through, we made it, called you, things worked out. How does probation work? If losing the license, when can you get it back? How long does that often [take]?
What happens in the process and outside of the process that pushes you into a position where you’re encumbered either for work or for driving or with probation?
Steve Waterkotte: I’ll handle the probation question first. Probation can vary. Typical probation length on a misdemeanor case, whether it’s DWI or anything, is typically two years, and that’s the max they can do on a misdemeanor. Speaking about DWI, you’re looking at a two year period of probation.
Here’s the reality of probation. Most folks, it’s scary. You think, “I’m gonna be on the side of the highway picking trash up. I gotta call my PO to drive to Illinois for an appointment.” Not the case on a misdemeanor probation.
The probation agency [is] overseeing the completion of these classes, community service. A court can’t do that, right? A court can’t function to oversee 10,000 people. They just don’t have the resources. So that’s farmed out to a probation agency.
Chris Combs: Let me piggyback just for one moment, because I think this is so important and sets us apart.
We try to give our clients, if these classes and things like this are necessary, every opportunity to get them done beforehand. So we can get limited probation. Then your only obligation on probation is just stay out of trouble. You don’t have to do these classes, because you’ve done everything upfront.
Scott Michael Dunn: Oh, nice.
Chris Combs: It shows you were proactive and took it seriously. It can help with your case too. But go ahead.
Steve Waterkotte: Overseeing the conditions of probation or your completion of classes. And then the most important part perhaps is don’t get in trouble, because that’s how you can ruin our work.
You’ll frequently hear judges say that after we’ve worked out a favorable plea deal on a first offense DWI. “Now the burden is on your shoulders. You have a period of two years.” Don’t get in trouble because almost always we’re able, on a first offense DWI, avoid a conviction from being on their record, avoid points from being on their driving record.
But again, the burden shifts to the client. They walk out of a courtroom, it’s on them. We provide them [with] all the information. We get them squared away with the probation, the classes. We say, “Now it’s on you. You stay out of trouble for two years. We’re good. This is not going on your driving record. You’re not incurring the points. You don’t have a conviction on your record.”
They know when they leave, it’s then on them. That’s another component of the probation function is if they were to get in trouble – whether [it’s] a St. Louis case or you’re in Nebraska or Oklahoma or Lake of the Ozarks – you get police contact, an arrest, it’s going to be flagged. The probation agency then reports it back to the court and says, “Joe Smith got arrested out in Kansas City.” Then he’ll be summoned back in court on the original case we handled for him.
Chris Combs: So the way that works is if you’re on probation and you do pick up a new arrest, then, like Steve said, not only do you ruin all our good work, we go right back to the sentencing phase. What happens is the court – meaning the judge or the prosecutor – file motion to revoke your probation. We go right back to the drawing board. We can’t relitigate the case, but we have to go right back to square one on sentencing.
Steve Waterkotte: It reopens sentencing.
Chris Combs: Yes.
Steve Waterkotte: You’re back and being resentenced. Depending on the nature of the arrest. If it were a similar offense, DWI – which we’ve had many clients on probation for DWI get an DWI. That’s a whole can of worms to then navigate.
Stay out of trouble, complete your classes. It’s as simple as that. And you won’t have any issues with the probation folks. On a misdemeanor probation, you’re not calling and saying, “Hey, I’m going to Cancun next week.”
Chris Combs: You’re not taking drug tests.
Steve Waterkotte: You’re not doing any of that.
Chris Combs: It’s not the Missouri Board of Probation and Parole.
Steve Waterkotte: Felony probation is a little different. But for a first [or] second offense, misdemeanor probation, that’s kind of the function of probation.
Complete your classes or requirements, stay out of trouble and you’re not gonna have any issues.
Scott Michael Dunn: That’s awesome. That’s good to know, that there is life beyond it. I think it all kind of wraps into the fear aspect of the incident itself. As soon as you feel like you’re swallowed in it, you start doing exactly what the police officer tells you to do. You’ll take anybody that’ll answer your phone call, a friend of a friend of an in-law, just because you’re so scared, you’re not making rational decisions.
I think a takeaway from this conversation is that you can take comfort in the rationale that it’s going to be okay. You’re going to get back to work. Probation will end. Do good, do well, don’t make the same mistake twice. Follow what we just talked about, which is don’t do what they expect you to do when you’re pulled over which is [to] prove yourself at fault.
Chris Combs: You’re never gonna win. If they suspect you they’re going to push to submission and that’s their goal as they pull you over.
Scott Michael Dunn: The best takeaway I’ve got from this – and every time I talk to you guys, I walk out. I’m like, “Man, that feels pretty good.” I know more about what to expect.
Steve Waterkotte: Your rights.
Scott Michael Dunn: I feel better about my rights. Because you don’t know where you land in that rights world, when you have a police officer standing before you. You just take for granted they’re gonna tell you what your rights are and you just do what they say.
And that’s a very difficult position to be in any sense.
Chris Combs: And I would just say – sorry to talk over you – but again just to stay off the internet. It’s like having a mysterious ache in your side for a few days and you hop on WebMD and next thing you think you’re dying.
I’ve got a lot of people, “I saw I can go up to prison for two years or a year, and I’m looking at thousands of dollars.”
Pick up the phone, call us. A 20 minute phone call is going to alleviate and give you the correct answers.
Scott Michael Dunn: That’s awesome.
It’s good to have you guys here. It really is. It’s really nice to be able to give this kind of information out to the public so people can feel a little more comfortable. Mistakes happen. People make mistakes. It doesn’t mean they did it on purpose, it doesn’t mean they were spitefully trying to break the law. That’s not the case.
And it’s nice to have a place to go when you make a mistake that someone will help you with how the law wants to press that mistake into your future. You guys relieve that pressure of what they’re pressing in affecting your future.
We appreciate this conversation. I really enjoy it. Every time I enjoy it. And every time I walk away, learning something new about being in this precarious position, being pulled over and who knows what might happen. I feel like there’s a figment of safety knowing that I could just call you.
And they say, call your attorney. I said, “I’m gonna put your numbers in my phone.” That’s the first thing I’ll do is make this phone call. Because I’ve always wanted to feel like I was safe in any entanglement with the laws. Where they want you to be submissive, you combat against that. And it’s terrifying. And I don’t know the law. And it’s just great to be in a situation where we sit down together. I feel like you guys not only know the law, you care about the client as well.
So we’re going to do some rapid fire.
Chris Combs: Sure.
Scott Michael Dunn: This is just real quick. Maybe one, two, three sentence answers.
I’m just going to go through a list. We may have already touched on it, but the podcast is more entertaining, more fun, good to listen to, but I think what we’ll get into here is very specific.
Chris Combs: Sure.
Scott Michael Dunn: All right. So we answered this question already before, but we can be concise. The question was, what is a DUI versus a DWI?
Chris Combs: They’re used interchangeably in Missouri, unless it is by drug intoxication. There’s really no reason to focus on DWI, DUI. Mechanically, they function the same way.
Scott Michael Dunn: What is the legal blood alcohol concentration, the BAC limit?
Steve Waterkotte: .08 in Missouri is the per se presumptive limit of intoxication in Missouri.
Chris Combs: And of course that changes for minors and CDL holders.
Scott Michael Dunn: How is that different?
Chris Combs: So, for CDL holders, I believe it is a .02. They are held to a higher standard. Minors, it can be abuse and lose. A .02 for minors, .04 for CDL holders. It’s all very case specific.
But, it’s important to note that it’s .08 for your regular drivers. And then for minors under 21, it is a different standard and same with CDL holders.
Scott Michael Dunn: What are Miranda rights and how do they relate to a suspected DUI?
Steve Waterkotte: When a cop is asking questions after you’re in custody or under arrest, they have to Mirandize you. They’re asking guilt seeking questions or eliciting incriminating statements from you.
They have to Mirandize you at that point. Which we all know is you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in the court of law.
Chris Combs: But that’s post arrest, which is important.
Scott Michael Dunn: So you have to get arrested before they Mirandize you.
Chris Combs: Yes. Because otherwise they’re asking generalized questions. A lot of people say, “Well, I was never Mirandized.”
Well, typically you’re not Mirandized, like Steve said, until they’re asking guilt seeking questions. You’re in an interview room, audio, video, where they plan to use that against you.
Scott Michael Dunn: Excellent. Can you refuse? All field sobriety testing?
Steve Waterkotte: Yes. You’re under no obligation and you’re not compelled to do that. You always have the ability to say no.
Scott Michael Dunn: Do you recommend one or the other?
Steve Waterkotte: The only way to submit to a breathalyzer is if you have had zero to drink, you know that you can pass it. If you’ve had anything, even so much as a half a beer, refuse the breathalyzer, refuse standardized field sobriety tests. Generally speaking, it would be my answer.
Scott Michael Dunn: What are the signs that law enforcement looks for if they suspect you with a DUI?
Steve Waterkotte: There’s three phases to a DWI. It’s the vehicle in motion. The officer observing your driving. What signs, swerving, failing to stay in your single lane is the most typical.
Personal contact with the driver. That is just, “Where are you coming from?” The officer asking for license and registration. They’re gonna be observing all that. So that’s in the personal contact phase.
And then the last phase is the testing phase, which is a standardized field sobriety test. Typically the three that are given, a walk and turn, one leg stand and the horizontal gaze nystagmus test. Then the portable breath test.
If you need Missouri’s leading criminal defense team to defend your rights and freedom, speak to a criminal defense and DWI/DUI attorney today at (314) 900-HELP or contact us online for a free case review.
