Combs Waterkotte is Missouri’s Leading Criminal Defense and DWI/DUI Law Firm, with over 10,000 successful cases handled. This interview serves as an introduction to our firm and is part of a five-part series designed to educate, inform, and assist you during a stressful time.
Episode Transcript
Scott Michael Dunn: So we’ve covered a lot of stuff. We’ve covered a lot of information. The last thing we want to talk about, which is a really difficult subject, is sex crimes. So if you’re accused of a sex crime or involved in a sex crime, it feels as though you’re sort of pushed with your back against a wall, no matter how you interpret it.
What’s the best way to understand or not fear the situation. What should someone accused of a sex crime think about or do, or what’s the first movement?
Chris Combs: Again, it’s the “Shut up,” is step one, of course, which we’ve discussed. I think Steve will agree with me, but in the last – I guess since kind of the me too movement – I think any defense lawyer would probably agree with me that the strategy has changed. You don’t just lawyer up and take the fifth. You don’t want to make any statements to law enforcement, but once you’ve hired an attorney, You want to control the narrative. If you’re accused of something and it’s a he-said, she-said, it doesn’t look too good when it’s just the alleged victim’s statement going to the prosecutor.
So, that has changed quite a bit. Steve, you want to talk about it?
Steve Waterkotte: I always say probably what the public views as the most vile or despicable crimes, more so than even murder, are child sex crimes.
Scott Michael Dunn: Sure.
Steve Waterkotte: For good reason. We’re dealing with children as victims, obviously.
And so not only in addition to punishment, we have registration, sex offender registration. Which, [if] you get put on that – we talk about how a criminal record can have an impact on housing and employment. Even more than that is being on that sex offender registration. Any person, if you google their name, boom, pops up the Missouri State Highway Patrol, [their] picture, their address, their tattoos, the vehicle they drove, the offense.
We have multiple tiers of sex offender registration. We are working with somebody trying to get him off one of them. Those create major obstacles.
Chris Combs: If you’re a tier three sex offender, you can only have approved electronic devices. You have to submit to lie detector tests, polygraph tests. That’s lifetime supervision.
Steve Waterkotte: I’ll give you a real life example. I have a client that I’m currently representing on a child sex crime. What’s at stake for him is – if he were convicted and placed on the sex offender registration – he would never be able to drop off his child at school, never be able to pick up his child at school, never be able to go to virtually any game. Because it’s going to be at a park. It’s going to have playground equipment. There’s rules on that.
Chris Combs: Can’t go to church.
Steve Waterkotte: Can’t go to church. If you think about it in a real life perspective. I have two children and I go to all their events and games. It comprises virtually all my time outside of work. To remove that and say, “I can’t do that? And go to a park?
Scott Michael Dunn: Right.
Steve Waterkotte: So these things, not only from a punishment and possible prison time sentence, they go well beyond that even.
Scott Michael Dunn: It’s life altering.
Steve Waterkotte: No doubt. It’s difficult for somebody to get an apartment. I’ve had clients that can’t get in an apartment. Where do you live if you can’t afford a home? It makes it very difficult.
Scott Michael Dunn: But you still have rights if you’re accused of a sex crime.
Steve Waterkotte: Innocent until proven guilty. And so that’s why it’s vital to have an attorney that’s experienced in those cases.
Matt Brown, our associate attorney [is] a former sex crimes prosecutor. In fact, the trial that he just got a “not guilty” on was a child sex crime. The guy was facing three life sentences.
Back to what we talked about earlier, is that attorney experienced in this kind of a case? [Has] that attorney gotten a “not guilty” on a child sex case? Those are checkmark boxes that Combs Waterkotte can check. Those are difficult cases to try, they’re sensitive, there’s a lot of emotions involved. There’s all these things that come within a child sex case.
Chris Combs: Children can’t consent, of course.
Scott Michael Dunn: No, no, that doesn’t exist. But at an adult level?
Steve Waterkotte: Most people know [what’s] common sense, but there’s also ways in which I’ll say something that might not be consent is somebody’s too incapacitated. You see that.
Chris Combs: Too much to drink.
Steve Waterkotte: Drinking, drug use, and they could not consent, give informed consent. And we’ve dealt with cases at the college level or Title IX cases. Chris has had some of those cases where they say, “Well, this was rape or or statutory sodomy,” – whatever the case may be, whatever the facts fit – but saying that individual, the alleged victim, could not consent due to intoxication.
Consent is consent. We know that. “Hey, is this person willing to engage in a sexual act? Yes.” Why I said that, we often see those facts of saying “That was not consent because so and so was too intoxicated to give consent.” [We] see it a lot at the college scene. Intoxications, the fraternity parties, that kind of stuff where they say that person was too intoxicated.
Scott Michael Dunn: And that’s a common element for consent. But what is it if you were to define it?
Chris Combs: Steve kind of explained it. Just someone, a willing participant, and they have to have the ability to consent.
Scott Michael Dunn: So if somebody says no, which is silly, right?
Steve Waterkotte: That’s clear. No consent there.
Scott Michael Dunn: So that is not consent.
Chris Combs: Of course not.
Scott Michael Dunn: So if they say no, then you’ve gone beyond consent.
Steve Waterkotte: I think that’s a clear example, and that’s why I used the one that I did.
Scott Michael Dunn: That made sense. It made sense to level it to a degree.
Steve Waterkotte: Right. And you’ll see sometimes, and I’ve had cases, where you had two individuals engage in sexual acts or intercourse. Then, perhaps one of the individuals, female, wakes up the next morning, is embarrassed, is ashamed, and then levels an accusation against the person.
Then it becomes our client. We’re saying, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, here.” Sometimes there’s a motive or agenda behind it. And so again, that goes to what we’re trying to conduct. A thorough interview with the client. I’ve had a case where my client was accused of rape. And yet, the very next day, the alleged victim is texting my client about getting back to seeing each other again.
Scott Michael Dunn: That seems odd, right?
Steve Waterkotte: It does. Something’s not square here. I don’t know a lot of folks that are saying, “I got assaulted,” and then, “Hey, you want to hang out the next day?”
So back to our investigation, that’s why it’s critical to leave no stone unturned. Sometimes you may have to subpoena phone records of the other person. Snapchat is a big now. Subpoenaing Snapchat records. And there’s a certain shelf life on those. That’s why it is incredibly important from the outset to get an attorney before some of these things may disappear, whether it be valuable evidence to support or help our clients’ position.
Chris Combs: And allegations alone will do it. Steve hit on this earlier, which is, there’s people sitting in prison all over the country based upon what someone said. Testimony is evidence. We’ve got a lot of people, and I’m sure you do too, that call up and say, “There’s no evidence here,” just because someone said something. They think there’s no concrete evidence, but testimony is evidence.
So the allegation alone can carry a lot of weight, of course.
Steve Waterkotte: And those are difficult cases because it becomes a credibility coun in many respects. But again, it’s imperative to have an attorney who is diligent in leaving no stone unturned so we can uncover inconsistencies in the alleged victim’s statements, stories, things that we can uncover evidentiary wise to rebut these allegations, to contradict these allegations.
Scott Michael Dunn: And that’s what’s important, right? And that’s why you guys exist. That’s why you’re so good at what you do. And that’s why people call you.
Chris Combs: And details are very important in those situations. Who touched who first, who undressed who. Who touched whose belt. It’s very detail specific in those cases.
Scott Michael Dunn: That’s a really difficult subject no matter how you look at it. Especially when you’re involved with children. I feel the depths of my stomach turn with situations like that.
Steve Waterkotte: And most people do. And that’s why there’s difficulty in getting the jury.
Scott Michael Dunn: Still in the end, it’s only fair that they get a proper defense.
Steve Waterkotte: They have constitutional rights. Innocent until proven guilty.
Scott Michael Dunn: All these people are talking and saying all these things around town that this guy did this and this guy did that, it doesn’t make him guilty, or she guilty.
Chris Combs: And a lot of times you see these allegations thrown around, and Steve touched on this, if there’s a custody battle or if there’s a divorce, different things like that.
Scott Michael Dunn: They’re trying to mount evidence or have an evidentiary goal.
Steve Waterkotte: You see a rise in many of these cases. Is there some other ulterior motive? Many times it is the custody battle or a pending divorce looming, trying to position or leverage. So we try to see if there’s any motives by any party to make these accusations.
Scott Michael Dunn: Well, that’s the investigation part.
This was wonderful. You guys have loads and loads of great information and I hope the folks that joined us can experience anything near what I experienced from just having this conversation. A better understanding of what to do in situations, DWIs, domestic violence, coming across other general or felony-based situations. It’s just a whole bunch of great stuff.
I really appreciate the time that you came and put in here with us today. And I hope that the folks that are watching also get great value out of this experience.
We are the Power of X. We’re in Hexen studio, downtown St. Louis. Thanks for joining us. We’ll see you next time.
If you need Missouri’s leading criminal defense team to defend your rights and freedom, speak to a criminal defense attorney today at (314) 900-HELP or contact us online for a free case review.
